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Why is nicotine such a small part of the addiction?


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#21 Rainbow Brite™

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:42 PM

I am getting a little tired of you putting out this BS when people here are trying to overcome their addiction to Nicotine. You are giving out unfounded information and it is not appreciated on this forum.

 

You are obviously no expert on nicotine addiction and I would appreciate if you keep you conspiracy theories and the subject about violent diarrhea to possibly a different forum, where they have an interest in discussing those subjects.

 

If you continue, your posts will be moved to pointless and if you start with even more bizarre advice and not focus directly on your quit and accept advice from the more knowledgeable about the the basic way to quit smoking, then you may have to leave the board altogether.

 

I decided to take to researching the alleged unfounded information by doing some research. I made sure to only look at those articles/studies that have been peer reviewed and credibly published.

 

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Also, there are various medical professionals backed by peer research that have spoken on nicotine working in a similar manner to how ramcon suggests, such as Joseph DiFranza, a medical doctor who has specialized in tobacco studies since 1980, and Dr. Peter Killeen, a credited behavioral neuroscientist who has published quite a few studies on addiction that coincide with his focus on behavioral conditioning / incentive. To back my statements up, I'll include some links below that document their status and credibility. They both have some interesting lectures on their findings available on YouTube and other video medias. I have watched them, but I won't share them or links to them here, just incase they are somehow inappropriate (they do mention certain devices). Both DiFranza and Killeen agree that for smokers, nicotine is an addictive agent. DiFranza focuses on the toxicity of nicotine on its own. Peter Killeen has done more research on the effects of nicotine on the non-smoking brain and both fully supports and directly states the idea that rancom suggested about how "In fact, to never smokers, it is nearly impossible to get addicted to pure nicotine in any form." It's important to note, however, that he stresses that because no one to date has smoked pure nicotine on its own versus tobacco as a whole, that there are no grounds to argue that nicotine is harmless, regardless of how addictive it may or may not be. He also stresses that the reasons behind nicotine being essentially non-addictive to never smokers has to do with the chemical changes that occur in the brain when someone ingests tobacco products. Feel free to search for their lectures on YouTube if you are interested, it's interesting stuff. :)
 

Credibility Links:

https://profiles.uma.../display/133044
https://www.abainter...terkilleen.aspx

 

As for the idea that nicotine is being researched as a viable drug for certain conditions, absolutely. If you google it you'll see tons of stuff pop up where nicotine (not tobacco, but nicotine) is being considered medicinally to aid diseases, two bid ones being Parkinsons and schizophrenia. There's a ton of published, credible research online to back that up. Check out "nicotine medicinal Parkinsons" or "nicotine medicinal schizophrenia" on Google if you want to see more.

 

I'll include some of the results I've found, since the burden of proof is on the one making their claim. :P
https://today.duke.e...edicaluses.html >> nicotine therapy considered for parkinsons/altzheimers

https://deepblue.lib...e=1&isAllowed=y >> nicotine consideration for parkinsons

http://umm.edu/healt...kinsons-disease >> cites nicotine as a possible protective factor for parkinsons

https://www.georgeto...e-nicotine.html >> nicotine may slow progression of alzheimer's

https://web.as.uky.e...cotineSchiz.pdf >> nicotine and its interactive properties with schizophenia

https://dspace.libra...ndle/10968/1744 >> nicotine's neurobiological effects on schizophrenic selective attention

 

etc etc

 


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    “Some lose all mind and become soul; insane.
  Some lose all soul and become mind; intellectual.
        Some lose both and become accepted.”
                     ― Charles Bukowski

 

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#22 avian3

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:35 PM

I decided to take to researching the alleged unfounded information by doing some research. I made sure to only look at those articles/studies that have been peer reviewed and credibly published.

 

8yi0so.png

 

Also, there are various medical professionals backed by peer research that have spoken on nicotine working in a similar manner to how ramcon suggests, such as Joseph DiFranza, a medical doctor who has specialized in tobacco studies since 1980, and Dr. Peter Killeen, a credited behavioral neuroscientist who has published quite a few studies on addiction that coincide with his focus on behavioral conditioning / incentive. To back my statements up, I'll include some links below that document their status and credibility. They both have some interesting lectures on their findings available on YouTube and other video medias. I have watched them, but I won't share them or links to them here, just incase they are somehow inappropriate (they do mention certain devices). Both DiFranza and Killeen agree that for smokers, nicotine is an addictive agent. DiFranza focuses on the toxicity of nicotine on its own. Peter Killeen has done more research on the effects of nicotine on the non-smoking brain and both fully supports and directly states the idea that rancom suggested about how "In fact, to never smokers, it is nearly impossible to get addicted to pure nicotine in any form." It's important to note, however, that he stresses that because no one to date has smoked pure nicotine on its own versus tobacco as a whole, that there are no grounds to argue that nicotine is harmless, regardless of how addictive it may or may not be. He also stresses that the reasons behind nicotine being essentially non-addictive to never smokers has to do with the chemical changes that occur in the brain when someone ingests tobacco products. Feel free to search for their lectures on YouTube if you are interested, it's interesting stuff. :)
 

Credibility Links:

https://profiles.uma.../display/133044
https://www.abainter...terkilleen.aspx

 

As for the idea that nicotine is being researched as a viable drug for certain conditions, absolutely. If you google it you'll see tons of stuff pop up where nicotine (not tobacco, but nicotine) is being considered medicinally to aid diseases, two bid ones being Parkinsons and schizophrenia. There's a ton of published, credible research online to back that up. Check out "nicotine medicinal Parkinsons" or "nicotine medicinal schizophrenia" on Google if you want to see more.

 

I'll include some of the results I've found, since the burden of proof is on the one making their claim. :P
https://today.duke.e...edicaluses.html >> nicotine therapy considered for parkinsons/altzheimers

https://deepblue.lib...e=1&isAllowed=y >> nicotine consideration for parkinsons

http://umm.edu/healt...kinsons-disease >> cites nicotine as a possible protective factor for parkinsons

https://www.georgeto...e-nicotine.html >> nicotine may slow progression of alzheimer's

https://web.as.uky.e...cotineSchiz.pdf >> nicotine and its interactive properties with schizophenia

https://dspace.libra...ndle/10968/1744 >> nicotine's neurobiological effects on schizophrenic selective attention

 

etc etc

I will take a look at these when I have nothing but time to read in a couple of days.  :)


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#23 Rainbow Brite™

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:06 AM

^^ Like. :P :)


  • avian3 likes this

                                  cloud_icon_by_plasticumbrella-d36zh7o.gi

    “Some lose all mind and become soul; insane.
  Some lose all soul and become mind; intellectual.
        Some lose both and become accepted.”
                     ― Charles Bukowski

 

588f4b6552.png


#24 lisapoker

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:59 AM

I agree with the nicotine point. Nicotine is mostly out of your body in 12 hours or so....so how do explain sleeping at night?
I took Alan cars class in NYC and I do believe it is more habit. Why would you wear a patch or chew gum. It is like giving a alcoholic some drinks to get off alcohol...we don't do that do we? Yes, I realize that you are cutting out the tar and chemicals with the gum and so on but, honestly I have a friend who is chewing 40 pieces of a gum a day that only smoked 10 to 15 a day!

I know I'm going to get some bashing. But, think about it, please.

I was a chain smoker when I drank , then, maybe 5 one day or 2 one day and if I left my house for 10 hours a day I did not take or crave a cigerette. When I sat on my terrace, needed a cig. Talked on the phone , needed a cig.

People are different kind of smokers.
I also have a friend that smokes 2 packs a day. Now she is addicted to nicotine but, she believes that in her mind more than me and tells herself that all day.

It is not just being addicted to nicotine and if you really think that you will never quit is my belief.

#25 GraceLove

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

Nicotine in and of itself is an extremely addictive substance. Could it have benefits when used in a specific way with specific dosages for a specific time frame? Sure...why not? There are hundreds of medications/substances that are extremely addictive that have a place in health care but only under certain circumstances.

 

So...the people that are arguing that it is not a nicotine addiction...do you really believe that you just have a habit of bringing your hand to your mouth over and over and over again while inhaling smoke? It's just a habit? That seems silly. Why would you do a movement that is absolutely ridiculous unless you were getting something out of it...a nicotine fix. Of course, the habit is part of it...but the habit wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the addiction.

 

I don't understand why people don't want to say "I am addicted to nicotine." I am an addict and it is only in admitting this fact that I will be able to recover.


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#26 Reisen

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:42 AM

Nicotine in and of itself is an extremely addictive substance. Could it have benefits when used in a specific way with specific dosages for a specific time frame? Sure...why not? There are hundreds of medications/substances that are extremely addictive that have a place in health care but only under certain circumstances.
 
So...the people that are arguing that it is not a nicotine addiction...do you really believe that you just have a habit of bringing your hand to your mouth over and over and over again while inhaling smoke? It's just a habit? That seems silly. Why would you do a movement that is absolutely ridiculous unless you were getting something out of it...a nicotine fix. Of course, the habit is part of it...but the habit wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the addiction.
 
I don't understand why people don't want to say "I am addicted to nicotine." I am an addict and it is only in admitting this fact that I will be able to recover.


It has been since proven, that Nicotine and several related chemical metabolites, have beneficial effects on the brain, and can be technically used as medication.
 
http://www.schizophr...ne.benefits.htm
http://www.medicalne...cles/315446.php
 
Some people even chose to self-medicate in that respect, given how addictive Nicotine is, it is however similar to medicating pain with Heroin. On one hand it has medical benefits, but it's dangerous as hell to take it, etc.
 
As it is with pretty much everything, the dose makes the poison, etc. Even if nicotine shows benefits to schizophrenia treatment, I doubt any doctor would suggest it, given the effects aren't really that pronounced, and the dangers of getting hooked on it, are quite high.
 
So there.
 

I agree with the nicotine point. Nicotine is mostly out of your body in 12 hours or so....so how do explain sleeping at night?
I took Alan cars class in NYC and I do believe it is more habit. Why would you wear a patch or chew gum. It is like giving a alcoholic some drinks to get off alcohol...we don't do that do we? Yes, I realize that you are cutting out the tar and chemicals with the gum and so on but, honestly I have a friend who is chewing 40 pieces of a gum a day that only smoked 10 to 15 a day!

I know I'm going to get some bashing. But, think about it, please.

I was a chain smoker when I drank , then, maybe 5 one day or 2 one day and if I left my house for 10 hours a day I did not take or crave a cigerette. When I sat on my terrace, needed a cig. Talked on the phone , needed a cig.

People are different kind of smokers.
I also have a friend that smokes 2 packs a day. Now she is addicted to nicotine but, she believes that in her mind more than me and tells herself that all day.

It is not just being addicted to nicotine and if you really think that you will never quit is my belief.


Just because the Nicotine is gone, doesn't mean the effects it has imposed upon your nervous and endocrinal system are un-done.

Nicotine and alcohol have different activation vectors in your nervous system. The effects both substances have, especially concerning the dosage are very different, and hence getting off of them is different, too.

Nicotine imposes dependency from a very tiny amount, and is very physiologically linked to our behavior. Alcohols in inherently different in that. The point of Nicotine intake is not intoxication, for instance, which is one of the major differences.

If you're really interested in how alcohol addiction works, I advice volunteering at an alcoholism clinic, I did this when I was at University for a couple weeks, and I learned a lot. Not just from the social workers, but also from the doctors and nurses, etc.

It's also quite eye-opening to what sort of people it "hits", there were layers, surgeons, politicians, software engineers, teachers, professors, together with people more linked to the cliche, like unemployed, former criminals, etc.

 

Having said that, substance addiction to Nicotine is only one part of it. Smoking is a lot about habitual uptake of Nicotine, it's why it becomes part of daily life. The reason people often restart smoking after months and years of not smoking, is because a false memory, of how well they felt after lighting up, and simply because we tend to associate smoking with times where we actually have time to smoke, like a break, or right after a nice meal. We tend not to remember the cigarettes we smoked after a fight with family members, or right before a job interview, or right after getting fired, etc.

 

The thing with smoking cessation is that it is a two-fold problem. On one hand you have the Nicotine substance dependency, and on the other hand you have years and years of habitual lifestyle changes to overcome. However dismissing one or the other is almost equally bad. Just having overcome the Nicotine urges after three weeks or so, doesn't mean you're out of the muddy waters. Same thing with switching to NRTs. Just because you got rid of your habits for a while, doesn't mean you can just go off of them, especially if you forget them. I've seen countless people asking for a cigarette, because they've forgotten their patch, etc.


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