why this forum bothers me

[greenlover]

Well since I've done everything short of begging Fred to remove this section of the forum I've been doing alot of thinking on why does this section bother me besides the fact I sooooooooooooooooo resent my Dr. NOT giving me the idea of using E cigs to continue my deadly habit. Its like everyday I fight the urge to stay free & I wonder would I be happier vaping on an E cig & yeah I would cause after all I'd be feeding my addiction so of course I'd be happier but then the drawback-here for over 2 yrs I've been wanting to learn to love to be cig addiction free & every once in awhile throw away a quit hoping that somehow I can smoke again but that heart attack & having stents pretty much let me know that smoking isn't a choice anymore so once that really sunk in thats when I decided to try really being free & hope that someday to be thrilled with not being a nic slave like so many old pharte who post here are enjoying their quits & wouldn't trade it for anything-someday I'd love to feel like that. To me that why I see this as such a threat to new quitters,after all alot of people aren't sure about quitting so planting the idea of an "OUT" on a quit site just seems wrong to me.

[Thulium]

Well since I've done everything short of begging Fred to remove this section of the forum I've been doing alot of thinking on why does this section bother me besides the fact I sooooooooooooooooo resent my Dr. NOT giving me the idea of using E cigs to continue my deadly habit. Its like everyday I fight the urge to stay free & I wonder would I be happier vaping on an E cig & yeah I would cause after all I'd be feeding my addiction so of course I'd be happier but then the drawback-here for over 2 yrs I've been wanting to learn to love to be cig addiction free & every once in awhile throw away a quit hoping that somehow I can smoke again but that heart attack & having stents pretty much let me know that smoking isn't a choice anymore so once that really sunk in thats when I decided to try really being free & hope that someday to be thrilled with not being a nic slave like so many old pharte who post here are enjoying their quits & wouldn't trade it for anything-someday I'd love to feel like that. To me that why I see this as such a threat to new quitters,after all alot of people aren't sure about quitting so planting the idea of an "OUT" on a quit site just seems wrong to me.

I'm pretty happy with just 2 years of having no desire to smoke, but if that's not your idea of freedom, e-cigarettes can still be part of a plan to completely quit smoking and nicotine (and vaping, if you want). It's fairly easy to give up nicotine if you aren't smoking, and its pretty easy to give up vaping if you aren't dependent on nicotine. Voila! If you want to be completely done with everything to do with the former habit, e-cigarettes can help you get there if that's how you want to use them. Not everybody uses them that way, and in fact it is probably safe to say that MOST people who use e-cigarettes may not intend to stop using nicotine...but it's also safe to say that most people who stop using nicotine (even cold turkey) end up relapsing. That doesn't mean that you can't completely quit without being doomed to resume the habit, but it does mean that if you do mess up your quit, you'll be exposed to more tar and carcinogens from just ONE cigarette than from using pharmaceutical grade nicotine in an e-cigarette for every day for 15 years...but with an e-cig, you can at least wait to quit nicotine until you are sure that you won't start SMOKING if the cravings for nicotine become more than your willpower will bear.

Since your goal is to ultimately become completely free of all things tobacco related, just quitting cold turkey is absolutely your best chance of success. Follow the advice on this board and there is nothing stopping you from becoming one of those "old phartes" you admire--even if some people on the QuitSmoking.com message board use e-cigarettes to quit smoking!

Really, it sounds to me like your problem is that e-cigarettes are TEMPTING to you even though you want to remain nicotine free. ....Perhaps you would enjoy using a personal vaporizer without nicotine to fall back on if you ever get an overwhelming desire for something to puff, but don't want to lose your quit to nicotine? I'm pretty sure you'll do fine in keeping your quit without one, but the option is there for you if you need it. Is that so terrible?

[greenlover]

Well when I see my dr. in a few wks I'll ask him what his take is on using E cigs to quit smoking-who knows maybe using a nic free e cig could be considered a real quit aid since it is allowed their own forum here so their must be some truth in trying to quit this way even tho to me it still feds the addiction something has to change. I know being free techinily for more then a yr shows me I can do this & if I'd just wait out the next 6-8 months I can feel like I did before giving my quit up last july. Its nice knowing how good it can be it just bites waiting to get there again I think what makes me so discouraged is my breathing-I guess I figured my breathing especially after a yr would be so good but it seems like that never gets better which is because I have trouble finding inhalers that not only work but I can afford-I'm just tired of feeling so tired cause of my breathing-that seems to be the one real drawback from having that heartattck besides the panic attacks.

[Thulium]

Well when I see my dr. in a few wks I'll ask him what his take is on using E cigs to quit smoking-who knows maybe using a nic free e cig could be considered a real quit aid since it is allowed their own forum here so their must be some truth in trying to quit this way even tho to me it still feds the addiction something has to change.

Keep in mind that the difference between e-cigs as a form of "Tobacco Harm Reduction" (the term for replacing the habit with something less harmful, rather than quitting entirely--other examples of harm reduction are: Seatbelts & airbags, birth control & condoms, needle exchanges & methadone clinics, etc) and an FDA approved "real quit aid" really boils down to marketing. In reality, there is nearly no difference between Nicorette Lozenges and dissolvable tobacco products like Ariva, Stonewall, and Camel Orbs except that pharmaceutical products are required to have instructions on how to use them for 12 weeks to quit smoking and tobacco products are required to have a warning that says "This product is not a safe alternative to smoking." (Of course they're not "safe"--NOTHING in this life is 100% safe, but the FDA has known since at least the 1970's that all forms of smokeless tobacco cause at least 95% fewer diseases than smoking).

In order for a product to receive FDA approval, you pretty much need a GIANT drug company's budget to pay for clinical trials (and grease any palms, give cushy jobs to FDA regulators, etc) to prove that it is "safe and effective" for its intended clinical use. In order to protect the market for drug companies, the FDA tried to pull e-cigarettes from the market until they were "approved" under these rules as a form of nicotine cessation therapy...but several manufacturers sued and won an injunction against the FDA because they don't market their products as a therapeutic way to quit smoking, they market their product as a smoke-free alternative to recreational cigarettes and so there is no reason that they need to be held to the much higher standards for pharmaceutical products since they are meant to compete with smoking CIGARETTES that obviously did not have to be proven "safe and effective" before the FDA approved them.

To me, the best thing about products like e-cigarettes is that--regardless if they are sold with the cigarettes or with the medicines--they can be used however you want: If you want to use one exactly like an NRT for 12 weeks as part of a plan to completely quit smoking and nicotine, or if you want to use them exactly like combustible cigarettes with no plans to ever quit, or you can make some sort of personalized hybrid plan or something else entirely.... Pretty much EVERY aspect of using a personal vaporizer is customizable: If you want it to look like a cigarette or look NOTHING like a cigarette you can. If you want it taste like a cigarette or taste NOTHING like a cigarette, you can. If you want it to have as much or more of a nicotine "kick" as a cigarette or if you want to use it without nicotine at all, you can. Because of this, you can literally tear down your "habit" into its individual parts and then reassemble it into whatever you want.

You said, "something has to change" and you are exactly right! ALL of it can change if that is what you want. The most important thing, IMO, is to just stop SMOKING. Nicotine is not a carcinogen, its just the addictive stimulant that keeps most of us coming back to cigarettes to get it. Nicotine or tobacco or not, almost all the REAL problems associated with using tobacco can be traced back to the inherent dangers of lighting something on fire and inhaling the byproducts 100's of times a day. Most of the THOUSANDS of different chemicals in smoke that are really dangerous, are the products of combustion, and the risks of fires, burns, tar, carbon monoxide poisoning, cancer, lung disease, heart disease, stinky clothes, harm to bystanders, and pretty much all of the things that made you want to quit smoking are caused, not by the nicotine or tobacco...but by lighting it on fire and inhaling the SMOKE. The problem with smoking is not so much what you are smoking, but the SMOKE ITSELF is what kills you! So as long as you aren't smoking--whatever it takes, if you have to put on white face paint and pantomime the act of smoking in order to avoid smoking, I say go for it: just don't smoke. Once you are not smoking, tackling your dependence on nicotine is trivial. Some people seem to need to use nicotine for longer than 12 weeks to avoid smoking, and some people can drop the nicotine on day 1 and never look back. Whatever. I don't sell nicotine and really don't care one way or the other if you feel the need to continue using nicotine or not, what I care about is helping people avoid the chronic and deadly diseases caused by inhaling smoke...

I know being free techinily for more then a yr shows me I can do this & if I'd just wait out the next 6-8 months I can feel like I did before giving my quit up last july. Its nice knowing how good it can be it just bites waiting to get there again

I'm not a doctor or a psychologist, but it sounds like you're doing fine without e-cigarettes. I'll support your quit either way, but if you are struggling to keep your quit and think that using an e-cigarette might help, here's my advice: Make a list of pros & cons. On one side write down everything that you liked about smoking--be as honest as you can and write down all the situations where you liked to smoke, any benefits that it might have given you (if any), and any aspect that you honestly enjoyed about the habit. On the other side, write down all the things you DIDN'T like about smoking--again write down everything you can think of...not just the "might die from cancer" things that are easy for a nicotine addicted brain to ignore, but ALL the downsides: the nagging coughs, the lingering smells, the holes in clothes, the shortness of breath, etc. Once you are satisfied with the lists, try crossing out all the things that are specifically caused by SMOKE and/or FIRE and look at what is left because that will tell you what to look for in finding a smoke(& nicotine?)-free alternative. Maybe the right alternative isn't an e-cigarette at all, maybe the right alternative for you is learning a new hobby, or chewing on gum, or having something to fidget with in your hands, or ?? Once again, I don't really care about that, but I do care about you and I support your quit no matter what method you use.

I think what makes me so discouraged is my breathing-I guess I figured my breathing especially after a yr would be so good but it seems like that never gets better which is because I have trouble finding inhalers that not only work but I can afford-

The propylene glycol used in e-cigarettes is used in some asthma inhalers and studies as far back as 1943 have shown it to be a safe and effective germicide. It is used in air sanitizers like "Ozium" to clean the air in schools and hospitals and sold in some smoke shops to eliminate the odors of smoke. Like I said above, it isn't approved FDA approved for any therapeutic uses so I'm not making any promises...but considering that 1800W fog machines use the exact same ingredients in MUCH higher quantities and have not, to my knowledge, caused any serious harm to anyone, there is very little room for a <10W e-cig to hurt anyone even if you tried.

If you decide to try using an e-cig without nicotine, here's a few things to keep in mind: When propylene glycol(PG is heated into a vapor, it causes the moisture in the air to condense into the visible fog. This means that if you don't drink a bit of water it is possible to get a bit of dry mouth or a sore throat, so stay hydrated! Although rare, some people are sensitive to PG but generally those people can use vegetable glycerine (VG) based e-liquids without any problem. Nearly every food flavoring comes in a base of either PG or VG, so it is possible to use pretty much any flavor imaginable as long as it is not oil-based (oils will cause most atomizers to stop working)

I'm just tired of feeling so tired cause of my breathing-that seems to be the one real drawback from having that heartattck besides the panic attacks.

Stay strong--you are so very right when you say you can do this. I'm pretty sure you don't really need an e-cigarette or anything else to help you stay smoke and nicotine free, but I for one will support your quit no matter what.

The first "e-cig" I bought mostly sat on a bookshelf for at least a year until one day as I was about to go outside to smoke, my daughter said, "Daddy, isn't that 'pretend cigarette' supposed to be better for you? ... You should use that instead." I realized immediately that she was right and that was when I really started researching them (...and I did a *LOT* of research! ) I originally only planned to use it to avoid smoking around my daughter, but after just a few days of smoking 1 or fewer cigarettes, my senses of taste and smell started to improve and when I tried to smoke again I found that I didn't even like them anymore. A few weeks later I couldn't even REMEMBER when I'd last smoked a cigarette so I bummed a cigarette from a friend on New Years' Eve and intentionally smoked one last time just so I could have a quit date I could remember. I haven't put up my meter because I understand some people don't think that I've "really quit" and I'm not trying to show off, but I've been smoke free since 1/1/10...of course, I have to give a lot of credit to picking that date because even on the rare occassion that I've considered smoking a cigarette, I didn't want to lose having such a nice round number!

[Stephanie]

I agree with you Greenlover, I feel like it horrible for the board because with 6 years clean, thinking about ecigs is dangerous for me, it makes my addict brain wake up and causes me unnecessary stress, crave like thoughts and it is all because of the nicotine lies they spew daily, I feel like the selfish eciggers, those who are not using them as a quit method, no desire to quit, are pushy and arrogant and have no respect for that, they cry that we endanger people, they put us in danger with every juicy stupid post. Millions of ecig forums and they feel they must endanger us....can't stand the selfish bully mentality of any of them!


I hate this forum. Not because I protest ecigs as a quit method, but because of the jerks who don't care to quit, think they quit, and they are still huffing nicotine, they do not belong here selling the poison!!!!!

Steph

[Thulium]

I hate this forum.

If you aren't here to support people quitting smoking & nicotine with an electronic cigarette, why are you posting in the Electronic Cigarette subforum of the QuitSmoking.com message board?

[greenlover]

I hate this forum.

If you aren't here to support people quitting smoking & nicotine with an electronic cigarette, why are you posting in the Electronic Cigarette subforum of the QuitSmoking.com message board?

What does it matter-Steph has been here for yrs & theirs no damn laws restricting anyone from posting wherever they wish. Its a free for all haven't you figured that out yet

[greenlover]

Thanks for saying this-I was beginning to think I was the only person who really dislikes this whole E cig thing-to me its like tempting fate & thats how I see it & have from the start. I know I'm not always on the same page as most here but everyone has a voice here but theirs some I wish would "shut up" & no I don't need those who have been here forever & do more good then harm.

[rickwhoo]

I dont care what you people say, Nocotine is not bad. All my Doctors say it is not bad. All the research I have read says its not bad. If you think Nocotine is bad, prove it to me. Show me.

[greenlover]

Spoken like a true e cig lover

[Electricman]

I dont care what you people say, Nocotine is not bad. All my Doctors say it is not bad. All the research I have read says its not bad. If you think Nocotine is bad, prove it to me. Show me.

Yep that's exactly what drug addicts /junkies say

[Thulium]

Yep that's exactly what drug addicts /junkies say

So are you claiming to not be a drug addict/junkie anymore?

[April]

-

[Thulium]

I hate this forum.

If you aren't here to support people quitting smoking & nicotine with an electronic cigarette, why are you posting in the Electronic Cigarette subforum of the QuitSmoking.com message board?

What does it matter-Steph has been here for yrs & theirs no damn laws restricting anyone from posting wherever they wish. Its a free for all haven't you figured that out yet

it matters because...

Unfortunately, all the threads that have become nothing but an angry debate are interfering with helping people to quit smoking. It saddens me to think how many people have come here, only to be turned off and turned away by the endless arguing.

I wish to make it clear that rude, inflammatory behavior by anyone, no matter how long you have been here, will be met with warnings and/or removal from the board.

[greenlover]

Hey if you have such major concerns over posters here why not go & whine at Fred & point it out to him how wronged you feel-what a joke. Your whole bunch does nothing but spew your e cig so called truth on a quit smoking site if anything people here of long standing should be whinning at Fred over you all.