Couple of dumb questions from a newbie...

[Thulium]

OK, I've refrained from feeding the trolls...but it is time to respectfully comment Thuli.

The ECF forum is about harm reduction using e-cigs. I undewrstand and agree 100% based on what few studies there are that e-cigs are less harmful than smoking cigarettes. If I was to choose for someone important in my life between cigarettes and e-cigs, I would want them using e-cigs. I even believe that most people on this forum would agree.

The thing is, and its the big @#$%ing thing that you & others here "promoting" the use of e-cigs fail to realize:

WE ARE NOT HERE FOR THE PURPOSES OF HARM REDUCTION

This forum exists solely for the purposes of helping people find their freedom from not just tobacco, but nicotine as well. Period, end of discussion. There is absolutely NO middle ground for us here in that particular topic of discussion.

As per the rules of this forum: If you are using an e-cig as a NRT substitute, we will do everything in our power to help you out, as best we can. We have a few users here that I know have successfully quit both smoking and nicotine using e-cigs, and that's perfectly fine.

But we will simply not tolerate advocation of e-cigs as "harm reduction" because that's not what we do here & its not what we're good at. Quite frankly, if you, the reader, are looking at e-cigs as a replacement for cigarettes, you are much better off at the ECF. Here's a link to them http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/ for your use. You will find that they are a community that is designed to support your continued (ab)use of nicotine with e-cigs.

Again, if you are here to get off the smokes & the nicotine...welcome. If you're not...you now have a link for a much happier community for you for that purpose.

Sammy

Sammy, I do understand all that very clearly. That is exactly why I am here: To give support and advice to anyone who asks for help using e-cigarettes (or any other method) to completely quit smoking & nicotine. As I've pointed out repeatedly, if people intend to use use e-cigarettes for any other purposes, there are other sites for that, but as long as even ONE person comes to this site for help using an e-cigarette to quit smoking, I and others will continue to be here to support their quit...even if they are using something that others may use for harm reduction rather than a goal of complete abstinence, e-cigarettes can be and are used "to get off the smokes & the nicotine" so I will continue to support their quit!

[Inquistadora]

Yikes! I'm sure glad the OP got a reasonable first response before the pro-cigarette smoking contingent arrived.

[Inquistadora]

So I've been reading around and given what else the users in question posted, it looks as if what I interpreted as pro-smoking comments were just badly worded anti-ecig comments. Ok, well the ecig is not neccesarily the answer to world hunger and all, but it does seem to be the most powerful stop smoking device invented to date.

Can you maybe be a little more careful about what you say (I trust you know who you are, and you are several). It would be a great shame if someone stayed on nicotine just because you ridiculed them for trying to quit. Quitting is HARD, and people trying to quit are unlikely to be the more successful if they are the brunt of gratuitous personal attacks.

[Inquistadora]

By avoiding all the potential hazards and byproducts of lighting tobacco on fire and inhaling the smoke, e-cigarettes are nothing more or less than a smoke-free way to mimic the habit of smoking that can be used EITHER as a reduced harm alternative to smoking while continuing some aspects of the habit, OR as part of a plan to completely stop using nicotine only if/when you are ready to permanently stop using nicotine.

It's really not rocket science: Smoke is not vapor. Smoke is the product of combustion. So-called electronic cigarettes are not lit on fire so there is no combustion and therefore, no smoke. That means every time somebody uses an e-cigarette, they are explicitly NOT inhaling smoke. That means they're also not putting other people at risk of exposure to secondhand smoke because there is no firsthand smoke...there is no smoke at all! If anything, propylene glycol vapor is likely reducing the amounts of bacteria and germs in the air as it is known to be a safe and effective germicide used to sanitize the air in schools and hospitals and sold in stores to remove the odors of smoke.

I can think of three fundamentally different uses for Electronic Cigarettes:

1. As part of no plan whatsoever: This means that even if someone has no plans to quit or even reduce smoking, if they choose to start vaping, they'll still be overall REDUCING the amount of smoke in the air. Initial results from the industry's first clinical tests is showing that e-cigarettes given to people who had NO intention to quit in the next 30 days had better long term success rates than smokers who used FDA approved cessation therapy. I know it seems to go against what you thought you knew about nicotine addiction, but e-cigarettes are helping people quit who had no intention to do so...that's quitting (or at least sharply reducing smoking) on accident. Is that really so terrible?
2. As part of a plan to stop smoking but continue using recreational nicotine: It's time to face reality. Some people actually LIKE recreational nicotine or tobacco and no matter what we say or do--even while it is literally killing them--some people simply cannot or do not want to stop using recreational nicotine or tobacco without eventually relapsing to smoking cigarettes. As adults, should that not be their right to choose or do you really think that everyone on earth should be forced to completely quit or suffer and die from smoking-related diseases? 8.6 MILLION people in America alone already suffer from a CHRONIC illness that is caused by smoking. Should these people be left to suffer from their disease until they either quit or die, or is it really such a terrible thing to offer them a satisfying smoke-free alternative...and if they want to quit using nicotine completely, they can cross that bridge AFTER they're sure that they won't just find some excuse to start smoking again?? Yes, these people continue to have an addiction, but instead of having an addiction to smoking, they have an addiction to a habit that is explicitly NOT SMOKING. Is that really so terrible??
3. As part of a plan to completely stop smoking AND nicotine: Toothpicks, jelly beans, tea, diet, exercise, chewing gum, e-cigarettes, and other smoke-free alternative tobacco products were not invented to be used as part of an FDA Approved smoking cessation plan to completely stop smoking, but that does not mean that they cannot be used as part of a plan to completely stop smoking and nicotine. In fact, because e-cigarettes allow users to increase or reduce the amount of nicotine, they are especially useful for people who don't want to completely quit cold turkey but want to quit smoking and nicotine at their own or doctor-approved timeline. This message board is intended for people in this category who intend to eventually completely stop all tobacco and nicotine use as there are other sites for people who may not want to completely quit.

So I would be your case 1 (no plan whatsoever), and for me, the ecigs have been the inspiration that I can really beat this thing. I doubt they will be my final quit method, but they really have me pumped with the idea I can QUIT.

[greenlover]

Well alot of e cig users are just trading delivery systems & brag about the joys of vaping with no end date in site.

[Wintering]

By avoiding all the potential hazards and byproducts of lighting tobacco on fire and inhaling the smoke, e-cigarettes are nothing more or less than a smoke-free way to mimic the habit of smoking that can be used EITHER as a reduced harm alternative to smoking while continuing some aspects of the habit, OR as part of a plan to completely stop using nicotine only if/when you are ready to permanently stop using nicotine.

It's really not rocket science: Smoke is not vapor. Smoke is the product of combustion. So-called electronic cigarettes are not lit on fire so there is no combustion and therefore, no smoke. That means every time somebody uses an e-cigarette, they are explicitly NOT inhaling smoke. That means they're also not putting other people at risk of exposure to secondhand smoke because there is no firsthand smoke...there is no smoke at all! If anything, propylene glycol vapor is likely reducing the amounts of bacteria and germs in the air as it is known to be a safe and effective germicide used to sanitize the air in schools and hospitals and sold in stores to remove the odors of smoke.

I can think of three fundamentally different uses for Electronic Cigarettes:

1. As part of no plan whatsoever: This means that even if someone has no plans to quit or even reduce smoking, if they choose to start vaping, they'll still be overall REDUCING the amount of smoke in the air. Initial results from the industry's first clinical tests is showing that e-cigarettes given to people who had NO intention to quit in the next 30 days had better long term success rates than smokers who used FDA approved cessation therapy. I know it seems to go against what you thought you knew about nicotine addiction, but e-cigarettes are helping people quit who had no intention to do so...that's quitting (or at least sharply reducing smoking) on accident. Is that really so terrible?
2. As part of a plan to stop smoking but continue using recreational nicotine: It's time to face reality. Some people actually LIKE recreational nicotine or tobacco and no matter what we say or do--even while it is literally killing them--some people simply cannot or do not want to stop using recreational nicotine or tobacco without eventually relapsing to smoking cigarettes. As adults, should that not be their right to choose or do you really think that everyone on earth should be forced to completely quit or suffer and die from smoking-related diseases? 8.6 MILLION people in America alone already suffer from a CHRONIC illness that is caused by smoking. Should these people be left to suffer from their disease until they either quit or die, or is it really such a terrible thing to offer them a satisfying smoke-free alternative...and if they want to quit using nicotine completely, they can cross that bridge AFTER they're sure that they won't just find some excuse to start smoking again?? Yes, these people continue to have an addiction, but instead of having an addiction to smoking, they have an addiction to a habit that is explicitly NOT SMOKING. Is that really so terrible??
3. As part of a plan to completely stop smoking AND nicotine: Toothpicks, jelly beans, tea, diet, exercise, chewing gum, e-cigarettes, and other smoke-free alternative tobacco products were not invented to be used as part of an FDA Approved smoking cessation plan to completely stop smoking, but that does not mean that they cannot be used as part of a plan to completely stop smoking and nicotine. In fact, because e-cigarettes allow users to increase or reduce the amount of nicotine, they are especially useful for people who don't want to completely quit cold turkey but want to quit smoking and nicotine at their own or doctor-approved timeline. This message board is intended for people in this category who intend to eventually completely stop all tobacco and nicotine use as there are other sites for people who may not want to completely quit.

So I would be your case 1 (no plan whatsoever), and for me, the ecigs have been the inspiration that I can really beat this thing. I doubt they will be my final quit method, but they really have me pumped with the idea I can QUIT.

Hi Inquistadora! Yep, sadly most of us don't start out with an actual "plan", since this is all so new to us! The confusing part, is first learning how to use this blasted thing, then we have to figure out the nic reduction. Most of us just learn as we go. E-cigarettes don't come with written 'steps' like other reduction plans. (maybe someday, I hope!)

But you sound very determined, (that's the most important thing) so I know you'll figure it out!

[Wintering]

Well alot of e cig users are just trading delivery systems & brag about the joys of vaping with no end date in site.

Hi Beth, how are you doing? {{{hugs}}}

Yep, you are right ... there are some people who do chose to continue using this thing, but that's not why we are here.