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People vaping in Pubs


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#1 Guest__*

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:50 AM

I just want to punch them in nipples.

Seriously... Pubs in the UK have been smoke free for years now, we've got used to it that way... now... 'Vaping' is OK. So you can walk into a pub with a fug of vape... Not happy. I got told to bugger off when I asked a person vaping on the table next to me to blow it the other way. Nice.

Seems we're getting the arrogant smokers turning to vaping and thinking it's all fine now.

Makes it very tough.

Discuss.

#2 Bradley Parker

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:58 AM

You might have breathed worse on the drive/walk over to the bar, I wouldn't worry too much about the vapers other than them looking a bit silly,

I have never personally detected an odor from an e-cig, but I'll believe you if you say it smells...

I do agree that I would want to punch someone in the nipples ["nipples" isn't the first place that pops in my mind, "jaw" and "face" seeming more readily available :lol: ] if I were told to bugger off after politely notifying them that their e-cig vapor was bothering me and asking for accommodations such to face the other direction while exhaling...

But after seeing your posts here on QSMB RobF, it is questionable to me how politely you notified them, to elicit such reaction, "Bugger off." :?: :!: :wink:

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#3 eros199

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

Maybe they where trying to quit and using the e-cigs as a tool. Sometimes ex smokers can be cruel and forget that they at one time where the person that now they criticize as bad as I hate to admit it when I smoked i didn't want some self righteous no smoker telling me anything :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

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#4 westbrom

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:17 PM

I always think its pays not to be too sanctimonious. I mean after all, there but for the Grace of God goes I. And just to add a bit of a reality check here, e-cigs are the the lat thing I worry about in some of the boozers in London I visit.

#5 EmmaBunny

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:01 PM

A few nights ago at an Easter banquet I encountered the strangest e-cig I've ever seen. Most of them are designed to look more or less like real cigs. This one looked almost like a mini-hookah. It had a small glass tank with silver-ish metal Victorian looking scrollwork all around the glass (this contained the nicotine), had a metal figurine on top, a fat, long, ebony colored barrel with elaborate silver inlaid in patterns, and a long, delicate-looking silver mouthpiece thingie. To use it, she had to hold down a button on the barrel for a few seconds and then she'd take a pull on it. When she did, the liquid nicotine in the barrel bubbled.

Anyway, I didn't notice a smell at all, which surprised me. That glass barrel of nicotine sure did creep me out though!

By the way, she held it out to me and asked if I wanted to try it. No, no, no, get that :twisted: away from me!
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#6 Guest__*

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:06 PM

I'm stunned no-one notices the smell, vanilla, strawberry etc, jut like smoke machines from the 80s!

I was actually really polite to the vapers and they were very rude back, I was somewhat taken aback. I've actually been reading about a bunch of people making points of vaping in places where you couldn't smoke, planes, offices, even hospitals, and there's not a lot anyone can do about it.

My main thing is trying to find a real non-biased published peer reviewed study which shows what is exhaled. There must be some nicoteen in there, so therefore they are putting nicoteen into the air, which mean I must be inhaling it, which must make my spider senses tingle... The question is, how much of a tingle.

#7 LouDub

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

I dont allow them in the Training Centre. It makes life difficult for the ex smokers and the current smokers, so as far as I am concerned if you want to vape you go outside with the others, equality in fume inhalation :mrgreen: .

We are not allowed to display cigarettes in our shops, so I was surprised to see a counter laid out in the local shopping centre full of e cigs and packets of filters that looked just like cigarettes. I think they will replace cigarettes eventually, and I bet you anything the same tobacco companies that make the cigarettes also make the ecigs. Eventually they will start to add the other sneaky chemicals to keep people even more addicted, and who knows a decade or so from now the first deaths from ecigs will occur. :(

Ryanair are selling them on flights now too :roll:. I dont want to be all rightous either, but as I get older I am beginning to realise that the only gas that should be going through your lungs is air.

#8 Ameliabadelia

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:28 PM

There is definitely a smell, although it's nothing like cigarette odor. When I vaped (not recommended!), once I did it in the backseat of the car with my mother in law in front, thinking she wouldn't notice bc the window was cracked. She didn't notice me doing it, but she kept asking "WHAT is that noxious smell?" I acted like I didn't know what she was talking about! :lol:

I think they should have to go outside too, that crap floats in the air and you can see it in sunbeams.
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#9 Frank

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:32 PM

Vaping? so friking ridiculous... that's all I got to say.

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#10 Guest__*

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 03:42 PM

I think they will replace cigarettes eventually, and I bet you anything the same tobacco companies that make the cigarettes also make the ecigs. Eventually they will start to add the other sneaky chemicals to keep people even more addicted, and who knows a decade or so from now the first deaths from ecigs will occur. :(


Yes, big tobacco is investing millions in this.

#11 QuitIsEasyDoneIt100x

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

Discuss.


Love the "Discuss" addendum :lol: Almost like you're mocking an essay question...lol

I can understand the frustration....but to me it's the same as seeing someone smoking as far as I am concerned. Except it doesn't smell like smoke (and it is not a smoke), so the smoke doesn't get in my nose and remind of of cigarettes and their nastiness. They don't get to vape...they have to vape. It's still an addiction and I suppose what I mean is you should be happy that you don't have to do any of that crap anymore! You are free. They are not. If anything, that is unfortunate for them. But really, why should it affect you? (I get that it does, just throwing that out there....)

Honestly, when I see a vaper, I feel a little bad that they still are not free. But at the same time, I am glad that they are using a less harmful alternative. Less people dying of cancer is a good thing I think. Of course being free is a million times better.....but sadly not everyone will wake up and get quit like we are doing.

I'd rather see something quit than vaping, and I'd rather see someone vaping than smoking. But it doesn't bother me at all....I think it's the other way around really: my quit should bother them! And for many many reasons.

Perhaps the fact that it bothers you is a sort of barometer for where you are in your quit? I would focus more on why it bothers you than the fact that it does.......
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#12 avian3

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:05 PM

I have never seen anyone vaping ANYWHERE. I rarely see anyone smoke.

I thought we weren't suppose to discuss vaping on the main board but I did it anyway. :D
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#13 Ace

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

I think you will see interesting new health issues form e-cigs in the next few years until the FDA shuts them down. I suspect most users will end up taking in way nicotine. E-cigs do not burn out telling the user smoke break is over.

#14 greenlover

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:27 PM

I guess cause I have breathing issues STILL even tho I've been smoke free for 16 months I just wouldn't rish vaping vapor but then again 4 yrs ago I was told quit or else, wasn't given the choice of switching delivering system to keep my addiction intact. :roll:

#15 QuitIsEasyDoneIt100x

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

I'm stunned no-one notices the smell, vanilla, strawberry etc, jut like smoke machines from the 80s!

I was actually really polite to the vapers and they were very rude back, I was somewhat taken aback. I've actually been reading about a bunch of people making points of vaping in places where you couldn't smoke, planes, offices, even hospitals, and there's not a lot anyone can do about it.

My main thing is trying to find a real non-biased published peer reviewed study which shows what is exhaled. There must be some nicoteen in there, so therefore they are putting nicoteen into the air, which mean I must be inhaling it, which must make my spider senses tingle... The question is, how much of a tingle.


Funny you mention the fog machines.... E-cigs work the same way and use the same base (propylene glycol). The "smoke" you are seeing is almost entirely condensed water vapor.

If you want Rob, I can try to find a non-biased study, but I am pretty sure the amount of nicotine you would be exposed to second hand would be as low or lower than the nicotine you would consume by eating eggplants, potatoes, tomatoes, cauliflower, and other members of the nightshade family which all contain nicotine.

If nicotine in second hand smoke is not a problem, I can't see it being any larger with e-cigs. Less, really...considering how nicotine is carried by propylene glycol in a non-alkaline smoke. Propylene glycol is heavier than air as well, so what little nicotine is left over would most likely sink to the floor away from your intake, as opposed to with smoke which would disperse more evenly.

P.S. Not sure how trust worthy this source is, but according to these tests the second hand vapor is harmless. http://www.healthnz....xhaledSmoke.htm
They also wrote this in a separate article:

5. Safety of Ruyan e-cigarette ‘smoke’ for bystanders.
Method. Analysis of published data on nicotine absorption, and informal comments of
bystanders, and observation of e-cigarette smoking indoors.
Results. Cigarette smoke is a mixture of sidestream smoke and exhaled mainstream
smoke. In constrast, the e-cigarette generates no sidestream smoke from its (artificially
lit) tip. Any exhaled PG mist visibly dissipates to vapor within seconds. Non-smoking
bystanders do not find the mist unpleasant. The mist is odorless, and those close by
quickly realize it does not have the odor of smoke or the irritating quality of tobacco
cigarette smoke.
Comments. Inhaled nicotine in cigarette smoke is over 98% absorbed 6, and so the
exhaled mist of the e-cigarette is composed of propylene glycol, and probably contains
almost no nicotine; and no CO. (see Figure 3.5) Lacking any active ingredient or any
gaseous products of combustion, the PG mist or ‘smoke’ is not harmful to bystanders.
The ‘smoke’ or mist is not tobacco smoke, and not from combustion – no flame is lit –
and is not defined as environmental tobacco smoke. E-cigarette “smoking” would be
permitted under New Zealand’s Smoke-free Environments Act 1990.33



Here is another:

Comparison of the Effects of E-cigarette Vapor and Cigarette Smoke on Indoor Air Quality
(short title – Assessment of E-cigarette Vapor and Cigarette Smoke)

1McAuley, TR*, 2Hopke, PK, 2Zhao, J, 3Babaian, S
1Consulting for Health, Air, Nature, & a Greener Environment, LLC (CHANGE), Corporate Headquarters, Queensbury, NY 12804-9358
2Center for Air Resources Science & Engineering (CARES), Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY 13699-5708
3National Vapers Club, Long Island, NY

ABSTRACT
Context: Electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) have earned considerable attention recently as an alternative to smoking tobacco, but uncertainties about their impact on health and indoor air quality have resulted in proposals for bans on indoor e-cigarette use.

Objective: To assess potential health impacts relating to the use of e-cigarettes, a series of studies were conducted using e-cigarettes and standard tobacco cigarettes.

Methods and Materials: Four different high nicotine e-liquids were vaporized in two sets of experiments by generic 2-piece e-cigarettes to collect emissions and assess indoor air concentrations of common tobacco smoke byproducts. Tobacco cigarette smoke tests were conducted for comparison.

Results: Comparisons of pollutant concentrations were made between e-cigarette vapor and tobacco smoke samples. Pollutants included VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols. From these results, risk analyses were conducted based on dilution into a 40 m3 room and standard toxicological data. Non-cancer risk analysis revealed “No Significant Risk” of harm to human health for vapor samples from e-liquids (A-D). In contrast, for tobacco smoke most findings markedly exceeded risk limits indicating a condition of “Significant Risk” of harm to human health. With regard to cancer risk analysis, no vapor sample from e-liquids A-D exceeded the risk limit for either children or adults. The tobacco smoke sample approached the risk limits for adult exposure.

Conclusions: For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes. The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.


This second study appears to be objective, but I am concerned about one of the study sponsors (National Vapers Club). This could suggest some subjectivity and bias, but from what I read in the study it seemed legit..... Although the conflict of interest does bother me a little...... But not enough to dismiss it totally since their methods seemed sound from what I read. But who knows.

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#16 babs609

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

I think they will replace cigarettes eventually, and I bet you anything the same tobacco companies that make the cigarettes also make the ecigs. Eventually they will start to add the other sneaky chemicals to keep people even more addicted, and who knows a decade or so from now the first deaths from ecigs will occur. :(


Yes, big tobacco is investing millions in this.


I believe It. Ugghh. They use the same tactics as they did with cigarettes. Just like the vapers can vape in public, the tobacco company can advertise on TV. Because its not cigarettes after all.
Makes me sick

#17 katiem

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

David.......

holy, moly man.....you wrote this:

Funny you mention the fog machines.... E-cigs work the same way and use the same base (propylene glycol). The "smoke" you are seeing is almost entirely condensed water vapor.


I did not know this and I cannot AT ALL go out in clubs/places where they have these fog machines. My lungs feel heavy and I start coughing. I had no idea they used the same "stuff"!!! Makes sense! The stuff is dangerous. And consistently inhaling that into your lungs? To me, just as scary as inhaling cigarette smoke—and FOR me, it better be just as scary—addiction is cunning....and can lull a person back in if they are not vigilant.

Rob F.....RIGHT ON...It DOES make it tough...Puffing nicotine is dangerous for me in any form. It is a danger to those who have been recovering from the smoking addiction....And well, this thread will not be on here long....it will move or be locked or both BECAUSE....DJ and friends (pro-and most likely STILL puffers) will complain and well, you know the drill....they complain because no matter how long they are puffing, they still want to make folks believe they are quit...and I agree with Babs.....MAKES ME SICK....

***edited to talk about the headliner...."vaping in pubs"....I do not go to pubs, much because I do not drink anymore, but we do like to hit the mall, ect...and THERE I have seen it numerous times. PLUS they also peddle them IN the mall....So, I was far enough away (stayed far enough away) to not have to smell it. But I have watched it. Two things happen when I see people doing it. ONE...it looks ridiculous followed by TWO the addict in me gets pulled toward em. Yep, I have been quit for a LONG time...however once an addict always an addict and for ME well, they are dangerous. That is all...so for my smobiety I treat e-cigs like I do regular cigs—GROSS and DANGEROUS instead of romancing them....

katiem
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#18 QuitIsEasyDoneIt100x

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:20 AM

Well I am glad to help you make that connection Katie! Now you have ZERO reason to be tempted by them. Sounds like you may have an allergy to propylene glycol...not too uncommon from what I read.

I agree, ingestion of nicotine in any form (other than the minute quantities in food from the nightshade family :wink: ) is very dangerous to us nicotine addicts. Stay away! :shock:

Life is full of temptation and danger.... no way around that. All I can do is take control over the actions I take so that I stay safe and keep my quit. Other people will be other people. I believe they are only a bother or threat if I allow it. Why give anyone or anything control over my life?

I am quit, and no advertisement or contentious dbag in a bar can ever change that. :)

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#19 katiem

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:31 AM

Well I am glad to help you make that connection Katie! Now you have ZERO reason to be tempted by them. Sounds like you may have an allergy to propylene glycol...not too uncommon from what I read.

I agree, ingestion of nicotine in any form (other than the minute quantities in food from the nightshade family :wink: ) is very dangerous to us nicotine addicts. Stay away! :shock:

Life is full of temptation and danger.... no way around that. All we can do is take control over the actions we take so that we stay safe and keep our quits. Other people will be other people. I believe they are only a bother or threat if you allow it. Why give anyone or anything control over your life?

I am quit, and no advertisement or contentious dbag in a bar can ever change that. :)


David, I like you!!!!! AND I am going to say this will all due respect and sincerity...don't PATRONIZE me....I am not allergic to propylene glycol because if that were the case I would break out continuously. Most lotions/sunscreens, etc have good amounts of propylene glycol....it is INHALING the vapor that made my lungs heavy. Also yes...I am a grown woman do you honestly think I do NOT know that life is "full of temptation and danger?"—(give me a break--more patronizing). Also, I am telling you what does not work for me. Watching and supporting puffing of the nicotine—vaping. I am sorry if you have a hard time believing that is tempting to me in anyway. However I am not going to go into "denial" about it either. It is what it is, David...period. If it is not tempting TO YOU—okay, and if you find it acceptable, that is your prerogative. I just don't share it.

katie

p.s. Sorry, Rob!!
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#20 QuitIsEasyDoneIt100x

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:01 AM

Katie, I am sorry if I came off as patronizing. :oops:

I was making a general point in response to the thread, not directed to you specifically. All I was saying was that taking responsibility over my actions is all I can do; temptation or no temptation, it should not matter because in the end I are responsible to how I respond to temptation. I struggle to see how the temptation from cigarettes is any different from the temptation from the electronic variety in terms of resiting them and keeping the quit. Getting worked up over other people's poor decisions can't be helpful to the quit and sets myself up for disappointment/frustration.

With regards to what you said, I don't doubt at all that it is a temptation. Since you said it. And I am sure many people also find it to be tempting, just as many people find smoking real cigarettes to be tempting. Comes with the quitting territory right?

But I never said I found it acceptable.... just that it has no effect on my quit.

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