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#1 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:57 PM

.... may I respectfully request that the hardcore CT folks refrain from replying? Please and Thank you.

For a little background, I joined QSMB back in April, in prep for going CT - long before this unbearable brewhaha began. It was a lovely place back then. It was 10 days into my quit, that I was struggling, really struggling. (and now I know why) It's just that when I even brought up the idea of the e-cig as a better option than the evil stinkies, well .... let's just say all I heard was the sound of crickets chirping.

I have been patiently waiting for the Cold Turkey folks to go back to the main forum, but they continue to harrass the lovely folks here. Really now .... I don't want to stir the pot, but the CT folks sound so fanatical (it's my way or the highway) that I'm sure this lovely place has lost a lot of potential members. Since I have been on both sides of the board, I know how wonderful this place can be, if only every one put on their big boy or big girl panties, and acted respectfully. Let me just say I truly appreciate the logical, rational, and intellectual approach the main members of the e-cig forum have shown.

Now, for my question. (sorry about that!) I've just learned something rather interesting. Believe it or not, smoking cigarettes was actually good for me. I have been feeling (physically) absolutely horrible since I quit cigs, I knew there was something wrong, I visited doctor after doctor, and no one could explain why I felt so bad. Ha, my friends would keep asking me if I felt better after quitting analogs - NO, I feel like I'm going to die. So, through my own research, (gotta love the internet) I found a study by the Mayo Clinic that verifies that smoking cigarettes counteracts the onset of Celiac's Disease. (a gluten intolerance) Wow, I can sorta understand why this wouldn't be public information, but I sure wish I'd known so I wouldn't have been suffering for the past 4 months. It was when I put down the cigs, the horribly painful symptoms began. So yes, (I'm sure the CT folks are chomping at the bit here) I decided to try an e-cig instead of going back to cigarettes. They have saved me. Yay! :)

So, may I ask if you know of any vendors that have or make gluten free cartomizers or juice? I just need something to carry me through my journey. I started at 24mg, got down to 18mg, and am now at 12mg. I'm thinking if I can find something (gluten free) for the next few months while I work myself down to 0mg, that would be wonderful. Because of the rules of the board, if you can recommend something for me to try, a PM would be greatly appreciated.

#2 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:36 PM

So, may I ask if you know of any vendors that have or make gluten free cartomizers or juice? I just need something to carry me through my journey. I started at 24mg, got down to 18mg, and am now at 12mg. I'm thinking if I can find something (gluten free) for the next few months while I work myself down to 0mg, that would be wonderful. Because of the rules of the board, if you can recommend something for me to try, a PM would be greatly appreciated.


Great question! I had to do some research on this one. :oops:

As a rule, neither propylene glycol or glycerine should have any Gluten and that's the biggest ingredient in e-liquid. In a pinch, you can thin USP glycerine with a little distilled water, add in gluten-free artificial flavorings (most of which are available in a base of VG or PG) to know for certain that there is no gluten because you didn't put it any in! ;)

Gluten is not water-soluble, so it is unlikely to be found in any e-liquid or cartridges but you obviously need to double check so creating your own "DIY" e-liquid is an effective and affordable alternative. If you aren't comfortable mixing it yourself (and especially if you want to add nicotine and aren't comfortable handling it), there are several vendors that offer "flavor doublers" with that can be vaped alone for 0-nicotine or mixed with e-liquids containing nicotine so you can taper down or stop using nicotine at your own pace. Here's a handy online "calculator" to help: http://www.todmuller...uice/ejuice.php

Whatever vendor you choose, be sure to send a message (or add a note to your order) to verify that all their flavorings are gluten-free. In reality, even if they used a flavoring that contained some gluten, the less-than-a-teaspoon (1tsp=5 cartridges) per day in a vaporizer is such a tiny amount that its unlikely to cause problems, but of course you need to be extra EXTRA careful so it never hurts to ask any vendor just to be certain.

ETA: To be completely honest, I'm not even sure it is POSSIBLE to have detectable amounts of gluten in glycerine or propylene glycol vapor, but it may be possible with certain "natural" flavor extracts. If you come across any, PLEASE be sure to post them, as many people want or need to be gluten-free as well as smoke-free. :mrgreen:
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#3 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:14 PM

Wintering,

If you have any reason to believe that nicotine is demonic or that its risks outweigh the benefits (in your case: possibly mitigating the symptoms of your disease or helping you refrain from smoking), vaping certain strong flavorings like menthol and cinnamon can provide the "throat hit" that many (former)smokers seek and without nicotine (if you choose). Some people find that they use less nicotine over time or are able to wean themselves off slowly, while others prefer to stop using nicotine Cold Turkey, but I'm not your parent so I'll leave that adult decision to you.
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#4 Electricman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:28 PM

let us discuss it on this thread on another forum here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/ , as due to restrictions placed on me, and good manners, I cannot discuss this here. Thank you." its easy to sign up. The people there wish to continue nicotine addiction and don't care for quitting. If you want to quit smoking and nicotine addiction then QSMB is the place for you and will help you when you decide to.
Goodluck on your quit
. http://www.facebook.com/electricmans

Nicotine, the addictive substance in tobacco products, is the most common cause of chemical dependency in the U.S., according to the CDC.

Nicotine is an extremely addictive dangerous drug . Tobacco, ecf/casaa(Consumer Addicts Should Advocate Addiction) are, in effect, drug-pushers. Their income depends on keeping millions of Americans hooked.

#5 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:34 PM

[quote name="katiem"]......see dangerous junkie thinking that other newbies are reading thinking (I do not want to put in my time and do the necessary work that quitting might require--I am too impatient to wait for the miracle).

Two....NOW that you are back addicted, you decide to SLAM the members here that are "working the entirety of the quit" a good majority of them are witnessing and experiencing the miracle, and those that have not yet WILL as long as they do one single, simple thing "not one puff of nicotine, one day at a time"...however, again you decided to SLAM the members that either have that miracle or are moving towards it by saying they are "harassers" of the folks here in the e-cig section (when in reality they just can spot junkie thinking a MILE AWAY) as well as now that you are "back addicted" you can sing the praises of those that are fellow drug users....(rather like Murphy's law) except what it really is, is "ways to find being addicted attractive, 101"

Now, I am NOT trying to be MEAN, I am trying to get you to see things from the "still using, blown the quit" point of view (yours) to those that have stuck with their quit plans and no longer "use". I am referring to the puffing of the substance that contains nicotine, in whatever form that is. It is the ADDICTS answer to still justify using.
quote]

Katiem, did you bother to read my entire post, or did you get your knickers so bunched up in a knot - just to preach that YOUR way is the only way? YOUR way did not work for me. Why do you have such a problem alternative methods? I have stated that I'm reducing the level of nicotine in my system, while my body adjusts to Celiacs. I do NOT (to quote you) have "dangerous junkie thinking". Your statement is so disrepectful. Please check yourself, and do NOT continue to reply to this thread. You have been reported.

#6 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:36 PM

let us discuss it on this thread on another forum here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/ , as due to restrictions placed on me, and good manners, I cannot discuss this here. Thank you." its easy to sign up. The people there wish to continue nicotine addiction and don't care for quitting. If you want to quit smoking and nicotine addiction then QSMB is the place for you and will help you when you decide to.
Goodluck on your quit


Electricman, I have followed your posts. Did you bother to read the first few lines of my message? Please refrain from replying.

#7 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:41 PM

Wintering,

If you have any reason to believe that nicotine is demonic or that its risks outweigh the benefits (in your case: possibly mitigating the symptoms of your disease or helping you refrain from smoking), vaping certain strong flavorings like menthol and cinnamon can provide the "throat hit" that many (former)smokers seek and without nicotine (if you choose). Some people find that they use less nicotine over time or are able to wean themselves off slowly, while others prefer to stop using nicotine Cold Turkey, but I'm not your parent so I'll leave that adult decision to you.


Hi Thulium, thank you for your help. {{{hugs}}} You are a stronger soul than me - for being able to put up with the abuse from some of the hard-core members. I truly appreciate your suggestions, and I will continue to research what works best for me. :)

#8 Dutch

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

Wintering, you know where to go for useful responses to your question. The folks over at ECF, I'm sure, can help you. Good luck.

No, wait. If you think "smoking cigarettes was good for me", you're in some sort of deadly fantasyland. You're going to need some really good luck. There's no need to kill the mouse with an atom bomb. Cigarettes not only will take care of your gluten intolerance, they'll take care of you, too. For good.

I sincerely hope your research turns up a better alternative than nicotine to resolve your issues. Otherwise, you're solving one problem while creating several more.

Free since June 25, 2008

 


#9 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:57 PM

I will, however address your "getting off of nictotine. A BY FAR cheaper method WOULD be to use the patch or gum and use timeframe on the package of the NRT. Thus it would wean you off of nicotine while at the same time NOT reintroduce you to the "puffing" end of the addiction. In addition if getting off of nicotine is the goal, you will not be stuck with all of the paraphernalia of the electronic cigarette, which can get pricey.


Katiem, the patch or gum are in no way cheaper than using electronic cigarettes to stop smoking. One box of patches or gum averages $35 and lasts about a week. The average e-cig user spends about $33/mo on consumable supplies.

If getting off nicotine is the goal, Wintering can DIY a months supply of any flavor imaginable from ingredients found at a grocery or candymaking store.
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#10 Electricman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:03 PM

Absolutely not true. I can link you to hundreds of post on ECF stating different Thulium ยป
. http://www.facebook.com/electricmans

Nicotine, the addictive substance in tobacco products, is the most common cause of chemical dependency in the U.S., according to the CDC.

Nicotine is an extremely addictive dangerous drug . Tobacco, ecf/casaa(Consumer Addicts Should Advocate Addiction) are, in effect, drug-pushers. Their income depends on keeping millions of Americans hooked.

#11 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:13 PM

Winterling,

Yes, I did read through your entire post.

Again, I can respond in any post I choose to (as can you) You decided to make public your statements and so, I am responding.

If newbies read this, they absolutely CAN apply it to a whole host of "medical conditions" or go into any kind of denial they wish to and it is dangerous, junkie thinking. I am not doing it so much for you as I am for them. I believe it to be grossly irresponsible to suggest that ingesting MORE nicotine in the system to help a medical problem, irresponsible, yet I have not reported YOU.

I responded so that I can allow the newbies to see the fallacy in these statements. As a former nicotine drug abuser I had a whole host of reasons and justifications to "still use" as you have written at the start of this thread. Where I take issue is that the ones that are actually DOING IT? The ones that are working the quit...doing the sometimes VERY HARD WORK are the ones called "harrassers" And so, I addressed it. Simple, AND AGAIN I did not report THAT.

If continuing to use nicotine through an Electronic cigarette is your choice, I have no issue with that, but I do take issue of it HERE as this is a quit smoking site where folks come to OVER-come the entirety of what smoking IS, the puffing of the substance that contains nicotine. NOT find "reasons" to still use. (I could have used the gluten one too,and would have had I known--I was a "still wanting to use, addict".)

Electricman said it best, finding the best way to use electronic cigarettes is on an electronic cigarette using site.

I will, however address your "getting off of nictotine. A BY FAR cheaper method WOULD be to use the patch or gum and use timeframe on the package of the NRT. Thus it would wean you off of nicotine while at the same time NOT reintroduce you to the "puffing" end of the addiction. In addition if getting off of nicotine is the goal, you will not be stuck with all of the paraphernalia of the electronic cigarette, which can get pricey.

Best wished to you! And I hope that you quit and that your quit is a successful--puff and nicotine-free one!

katiem



Well, first off, my screen name is not Winterling. Secondly, my very first line SHOULD have stopped any logical / rationally minded individuals from jumping into a slam fest. Perhaps I should have started out by saying: "Fred, let the games begin"

Once again, since you don't seem to be able to comprehend a simple statement, I am reducing the amount of nicotine I'm using. (you must have missed that - twice!) Yes, you are able to post where ever you wish. (go ahead and stomp your feet!) ;) But as stated in my first line, I RESPECTFULLY REQUESTED that the hard core people from the main board - not take away from a rational discussion. Thanks. And, I will no longer be replying to your temper tantrums, so have a nice day - somewhere else. :roll:

Wintering

#12 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:21 PM

Wintering, you know where to go for useful responses to your question. The folks over at ECF, I'm sure, can help you. Good luck.

No, wait. If you think "smoking cigarettes was good for me", you're in some sort of deadly fantasyland. You're going to need some really good luck. There's no need to kill the mouse with an atom bomb. Cigarettes not only will take care of your gluten intolerance, they'll take care of you, too. For good.

I sincerely hope your research turns up a better alternative than nicotine to resolve your issues. Otherwise, you're solving one problem while creating several more.


Dutch, what a shame. I thought you were better than this.

Fine, go ahead and disregard the Mayo Clinic. Smoking cigarettes / not nicotine - is what disrupts the onset of Celiacs. I have not gone back to smoking cigarettes, so I don't need your (ahem) good luck wishes. A "deadly fantasyland", eh? Thanks for the support. You've been a great help in reducing the amount of nicotine I'm using, while I get down to 0mgs. I will no longer reply to your useless posts.

Wintering

#13 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:28 PM

Thu.....are you here to quit smoking or "get a quit"? You must be relatively new. I have read a few of your posts. OR did you not really want to quit (get help with the addiction of puffing the implement that contains nicotine?) and are just here to make sure that it is STILL and ONGOING addiction to the drug that smoking contains is A-OK....well, OF COURSE it is OKAY with you! You are still addicted. soooooo

How can we be of help to you--to end the on-going, NO END IN SITE puffing of the nicotine? THAT is what this site is all about...

In response to you....One is STILL STUCK with the drug paraphernalia. Getting ride of any and all drug paraphernalia is "quit and more importantly keeping the quit 101" As having that around CAN and and MANY, MANY times IS a MAJOR trigger. As far as the e-cig being cheaper? Not a chance. One still has to BUY the original drug paraphernalia. In addition to the monies you mentioned MIGHT be for the first couple few weeks and then the step-down method of the patch or gum immediately AFTER that would make it infinitely cheaper--as there is a definitive time-frame to get off all nicotine all-together.

katiem


Katie, what Wintering seems to understand but seems to elude you is the fact that e-cigarettes are not part of any approved nicotine cessation plan, so if someone wants to stop smoking by using an electronic cigarette, the "plan" is whatever they CHOOSE to do, but I can suggest one that fits your criteria:

1 "USB Passthru" battery (eGo or similar): $30
10 (dualcoil) cartomizers: $20
4oz of 0-nic flavored e-liquid: $16
1oz customized nicotine e-liquid: $16

For a whopping $82 (plus shipping-lol) that would be enough supplies to easily ramp from whatever nicotine strength you choose down to 0-nicotine over the course of 12 weeks if you so choose. Although you are right that it could last longer than that and some people buy a lot of stuff they don't really "need" and some people need to research and explore before they find something just right and some people really get addicted to trying every new flavor and/or gadget that comes along. It is certainly possible to spend any amount of money--in fact some people get so excited about having quit smoking so easily that they spend a lot of money investing in starting their own business. I have one friend in particular who started an e-cigarette store in her town with the money she saved by not buying 2+ packs a day.
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#14 Dutch

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:49 PM

I've just learned something rather interesting. Believe it or not, smoking cigarettes was actually good for me.


I'm sorry, Wintering, but I thought you said "smoking cigarettes was actually good for me". Well I'll be damned, that's exactly what you said. Sorry if I called you out for saying something so ridiculous.

If you are getting to 0 nicotine, then by all means you have my utmost support. No need to reply as you've already stated my posts are useless anyway.

Free since June 25, 2008

 


#15 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:04 PM

I've just learned something rather interesting. Believe it or not, smoking cigarettes was actually good for me.


I'm sorry, Wintering, but I thought you said "smoking cigarettes was actually good for me". Well I'll be damned, that's exactly what you said. Sorry if I called you out for saying something so ridiculous.

If you are getting to 0 nicotine, then by all means you have my utmost support. No need to reply as you've already stated my posts are useless anyway.


To reaffirm my statement .... (just so you'll - HOPEFULLY - understand) I said smoking cigarettes - not the nicotine, which I'm reducing. There is something in the cigarette that blocks the onset of Celiacs. I have not smoked a cigarette for 4 months. There, do you get it now? So I'm calling you out for twisting my words.

#16 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:19 PM

To reaffirm my statement .... (just so you'll - HOPEFULLY - understand) I said smoking cigarettes - not the nicotine, which I'm reducing. There is something in the cigarette that blocks the onset of Celiacs. I have not smoked a cigarette for 4 months. There, do you get it now? So I'm calling you out for twisting my words.


Do you happen to know what it is about smoking cigarettes that blocks the onset of Celiacs? Is it an alkaloid of tobacco (other than nicotine) that might be available in smoke-free tobacco products like Swedish-style snus or dissolvables, or is it specifically a product of tobacco combustion like carbon monoxide or ??
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#17 Wintering

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:28 PM

To reaffirm my statement .... (just so you'll - HOPEFULLY - understand) I said smoking cigarettes - not the nicotine, which I'm reducing. There is something in the cigarette that blocks the onset of Celiacs. I have not smoked a cigarette for 4 months. There, do you get it now? So I'm calling you out for twisting my words.


Do you happen to know what it is about smoking cigarettes that blocks the onset of Celiacs? Is it an alkaloid of tobacco (other than nicotine) that might be available in smoke-free tobacco products like Swedish-style snus or dissolvables, or is it specifically a product of tobacco combustion like carbon monoxide or ??


Hi Thulium, gosh I wish I knew what it was! (I'd be rich!) :D From all the research I found, it must be hidden within the 4000 other chemicals in a cigarette. It obviously isn't the nicotine, since I'd never have know I had Celiacs if I didn't quit smoking cigarettes.

#18 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:55 PM

I would highly recommend setting up a definitive quit plan. One that you can document and that has a "zero amount" of nicotine by a certain time. Say X amount of weeks from now. This would ensure that you do not remain "still addicted". Nicotine is highly addictive, destructive and poisonous. Getting off it asap will always be your best possible choice or one risks STAYING addicted, continually.


Here you go:
First, determine what vaporizer, flavor, and nicotine strength works
Second, as I suggested above, buy a 4oz bottle of 0-nicotine flavor and PG/VG mix of your choice and a 1oz (30ml) bottle of e-liquid that is stronger than you intend to vape.
Finally, if your goal is to reach 0-nicotine by a certain time as Katiem recommends, decide if you want to slowly taper your nicotine usage down over time or stop all at once. If you want to taper down the nicotine to zero, start by using half/half mix of 0-nic and nicotine e-liquid, then simply use more 0-nic and less nic whenever you are ready (or according to a predetermined plan if you prefer) to step down until you use only 0-nicotine. There are several "calculators" available online that can help.

As I mentioned before and especially since Celiacs may make you sensitive to certain flavorings and because you are intending to quit nicotine completely, I would definitely recommend looking into making DIY e-liquid yourself so that you can know with complete certainty what is and isn't in your vapor: Whatever you choose to put in it! ;) Propylene Glycol (PG) produces a stronger "throat hit" and generally carries more flavor, while Vegetable Glycerine (VG) is useful for people who may be sensitive to PG and it produces a thicker, longer lasting flavor, but doesn't carry as much flavor or throat hit. I like a blend of the two, but that is a matter of individual tastes and allergy considerations, etc. Nearly every natural and artificial food flavoring comes in a base of PG and/or VG, so mixing the amount of flavor(s) with your choice of PG/VG base and you can make your own e-liquid rather easily entirely out of fairly affordable ingredients--especially if you intend to stop using nicotine. :mrgreen:
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#19 Thulium

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:32 PM

A good idea would be to just get the nastiest tasting stuff and be on it as little as possible and then throw OUT the paraphernalia as soon as one is done. (or again, risk ongoing--addictive/obsession that all "still smokers" have and is a huge part of not being free from smoking, whether it be smoking regular cigarettes or electronic ones).


Torturing oneself is one option I suppose, but what seems to work better for most people is to find a non-tobacco flavor they enjoy so much that the taste of burnt tobacco leaves will never again have any appeal and perhaps without any struggle or "obsession" at all, you can be completely free from smoking cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes are not lit on fire and produce no smoke, therefore they are never smoked. When you are using an e-cigarette (with or without nicotine) you are NOT smoking, so many people make the choice to quit smoking completely after they've effectively stopped smoking simply by switching to a smoke-free alternative like e-cigarettes.
Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that smoke-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a smoking cessation aid pose a greater public health risk than sugar-free products that may contain an addictive psychostimulant but have not been approved by the FDA as a weight loss aid?

#20 Electricman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:36 PM

A good idea would be to just get the nastiest tasting stuff and be on it as little as possible and then throw OUT the paraphernalia as soon as one is done. (or again, risk ongoing--addictive/obsession that all "still smokers" have and is a huge part of not being free from smoking, whether it be smoking regular cigarettes or electronic ones).


Torturing oneself is one option I suppose, but what seems to work better for most people is to find a non-tobacco flavor they enjoy so much that the taste of burnt tobacco leaves will never again have any appeal and perhaps without any struggle or "obsession" at all, you can be completely free from smoking cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes are not lit on fire and produce no smoke, therefore they are never smoked. When you are using an e-cigarette (with or without nicotine) you are NOT smoking, so many people make the choice to quit smoking completely after they've effectively stopped smoking simply by switching to a smoke-free alternative like e-cigarettes.

:roll:
. http://www.facebook.com/electricmans

Nicotine, the addictive substance in tobacco products, is the most common cause of chemical dependency in the U.S., according to the CDC.

Nicotine is an extremely addictive dangerous drug . Tobacco, ecf/casaa(Consumer Addicts Should Advocate Addiction) are, in effect, drug-pushers. Their income depends on keeping millions of Americans hooked.




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